The One That Didn’t Get Away: Christy & Casey’s Former Research Beagle Story

John Ramer  0:00  
Hi. I'm John Raymer from kindness ranch animal sanctuary in Wyoming. 

Lori Cohen  0:04  
And I'm Lori Cohen from the Beagle Alliance in Manitoba, Canada. 

Chelsey Marino  0:08  
And I'm Chelsea Marino from keeper and kin in Charlotte, North Carolina. And this is dogs beyond the lab.

John Ramer  0:18  
Chelsea Lori, welcome. 

Chelsey Marino  0:20  
Hi, John, 

Lori Cohen  0:20  
hi, Chelsey, thanks. 

John Ramer  0:23  
How are you guys doing? 

Chelsey Marino  0:24  
I'm good today, yeah. 

John Ramer  0:25  
And this, this was a question brought up recently with our upcoming batch of dogs coming in, because we have a couple of new staff, and they were asking me if the dogs were available for adoption, and we have a rule out here that new staff have to be here at least 90 days before they can adopt, and the dog that they want to adopt also has to be here at least 90 days. And I got to thinking about after our last conversation about all of the dogs that have touched us. And there was Chelsea you mentioned in a recent conversation, there was one that got away. 

Chelsey Marino  1:10  
Yeah, there's one like, I mean, there's one that gets away every time I go out there, I'll tell you that. But my one that got away. Her name was cranberry. I think I met her the second time I came out to kindness Ranch, she stole my little heart. I still talk to her. Adopt her all the time. She always sends me on Instagram. She'll send me cranberry updates. She calls them. She calls her berry now, and it's just cranberry's just got one of those grumpy, sleepy faces, and every picture is just her just asleep on the bed, and she just knows. I am just obsessed with her. I love her so much. I'm getting emotional thinking about her, but she was my one that got away. I just love her so much. 

John Ramer  1:49  
What about you, Lori? 

Lori Cohen  1:51  
Well, we did at an earlier date talk about, I don't really want to call him the one who got away, because thankfully, he was adopted by my board member who lives in Manitoba as well. So every time we meet, I just happen to have to set that meeting place at her place. And he at Lee comes running up to the door, and I can hear her in the background going, it's your girlfriend, it's your girlfriend. And so he didn't really get away. I get to see him anytime I want. And so it's very like, I'm very lucky on that part, John, I've got to ask you right now, are you having this moment because our guest has the dog that got away from you? Is she the one who got away. 

John Ramer  2:41  
I wasn't gonna say that, but since you are so skilled with your segues, if you would like to introduce today's guest, by all means, I'm just gonna sit here and look at the video feed and reminisce 

Lori Cohen  2:53  
right the one that got away.  Maybe that's the name of this episode. But okay, well, we are going to chat with Christy. So welcome Christy and Casey. Hello, who Hello. Thank you for being here. Christy is one of those somewhat surprise, what we call foster fails, because Christy and in a fabulous way, of course, but Christy and Casey, who is sitting with her now, who, at the time, we knew as Fiat. So we want to make that note, because we we change the names, and we choose fun names when we come into Canada, and kind of use that as a new start sort of thing. But welcome Christy and Casey, who really were not expecting, came into my yard that day, not expecting to adopt. It was their second time fostering, fostering. What was the plan? And so now here we are, and I'm excited to sort of chat and talk about that journey. Christy, welcome. Yeah.

Christy Cook  4:01  
Thank you. Thank you 

John Ramer  4:03  
so Christy, I have to ask, this is your your second time fostering for the Beagle Alliance, right? Yes. What was it that made you want to work or foster with former research animals? How did you get introduced to that world? 

Christy Cook  4:18  
Well, first, we had had a beagle who had been rescued in Manitoba many years ago, and we just loved her to death. It was the first time we had a beagle, and she just melted our hearts. And we had her for probably 10 years,

Christy Cook  4:36  
and then so I always had in the back of my mind, I really like beagles, and I was just scrolling, and good old Instagram brought up Lori's Beagle Alliance, and I started watching videos, and I was like, Oh my goodness. What is happening? What is going on in this world? And then we just were like, Well, look, we have, we already have a dog. We can foster, we can do the. We can help out. So just contacted Laurie and ta da.

Lori Cohen  5:07  
Here we are, two years later. Christy, you know, when we come into Manitoba, we have what's called a little release event at my yard, usually, and of course, everyone's prepared, and nobody knows what dog they're going to be matched up with. That's kind of the the special, the special moment, and also what makes you foster as an adopter so special, because you sort of lay your trust on us to choose that dog and and hopefully everything works out. But either way, of course, you had no plans to adopt. Your family had no plans to adopt. What When was the moment that I mean, did you walk in, look at that little cutie face and go, Okay, it's over. Or was it a week later, when was what was that moment like when you went, Okay, we're not this is not a foster

Christy Cook  6:01  
Well, when we pulled into your yard and my daughter was just vibrating in the back seat, I can't I can't wait to see the dog. Mom, do you think it's going to be a girl? Do you think it's going to be a boy? Mom, this, Mom, this. And I was like, just settle down. We're not taking this dog were there to foster, to help this dog grow. And then she came out of that kennel, and she came right into her arms. And I was like, Nope, this is it. It

Chelsey Marino  6:35  
was that quick love at first sight.

Christy Cook  6:37  
Yeah, absolutely.

Lori Cohen  6:38  
And Zoe was all over. It wasn't she?

Christy Cook  6:40  
Oh, yeah,

Lori Cohen  6:41  
look at I love Christy. You do you know Christy and I have cried a lot together,

Christy Cook  6:47  
yes, yeah,

Lori Cohen  6:49  
because it was such a special day and a special moment, and it really spoke to you, Christy, too, and we've chatted about this. So I'd love for you to share just a little bit about when you really start thinking about former research dogs and them coming into your family and what that's meant to you to think about that, if you wouldn't mind sharing some of that?

Christy Cook  7:11  
Oh, absolutely. Like she has, like this little girl charms everybody. Everybody who meets her, we explain her story, and she's curled up in their lap, snuggled up against them.

John Ramer  7:25  
I fell victim to those charms.

Christy Cook  7:27  
I

Lori Cohen  7:29  
was thinking that John Exactly, yeah,

Christy Cook  7:32  
but she just she melts everybody's heart. She's so trusting. She's so sweet that absolutely no one can believe that somebody could look into these. I mean, she is giving you the side eye, but she has very deep brown eyes that just say, love me. I thought

John Ramer  7:51  
it was because she missed Wyoming.

Christy Cook  7:53  
Do you miss Wyoming? Casey, maybe

Lori Cohen  7:59  
just in the winter. John, no, no offense. Yeah.

John Ramer  8:04  
So Christy, if you don't mind, Chelsea said something before you logged in that I thought was really interesting, because I one of my questions that we have written down is to ask you what surprised you most about a former research animal's most normal thing that they do. And Chelsea mentioned before you logged on, that Fiat or Casey, is one of the most normal dogs that she's seen come out of research. What's what's been your experience on that,

Christy Cook  8:41  
yeah, she is really normal and so incredibly trusting of people like I just it floors me. Even last night, we were walking, and she was, you know, she's still a little skittish when she walks, but there was a person walking towards us, and she instinctively. And I mean, I don't know if this person likes or feels comfortable with dogs, and as we walked by, Casey veered towards her as if to say, like, Hello, do you want to pet me? Do you want to be my friend? And I'm like, How does this dog who has suffered at the hands of people. How does she just trust everybody and has like 00 apprehension with people when she's meeting them, which is really fantastic, but a little scary sometimes,

Chelsey Marino  9:37  
I like to say it's beautiful and heartbreaking when you find the dogs who are so trusting to people it's almost like you shouldn't be, you know. So I can empathize with that feeling. And I guess, do you feel that she just let some things go immediately when she. Into the home, right? Because there is some hesitation. And I know we talked early on of her, she has a little bit of a startle reflex and noises and stuff like that. But with people, do you feel like that's something that she never had an issue with, or it got better? Do you feel that her relationship with strangers was always a okay? Or is that something that has evolved the longer that she's been with you?

Christy Cook  10:30  
I think she's really always been like, she just people come into our home and she's like, hi, welcome. Like, let me sit on your lap. Let me, would you like to pet me? And she's the heads down, and she'll lean in for love. And I'm like, okay, because our our other dog will take a minute to warm up to people, and he'll be like, I'm gonna check you out first. And she doesn't have any of that. She just goes with it. And she's like, Hello. She expects love.

Chelsey Marino  11:04  
Well, speaking of Finnegan, speaking of your other dog, what was his role with her as Big Brother? What did he do that helped her, or maybe didn't help her so much?

Christy Cook  11:16  
She finds comfort in him. So if things get scary, if she's on a walk, and like, she's still tentative about walks, but she'll walk, and she'll press her shoulder up against him, and he's like, okay, that's fine. Oh, he's her comfort. In that sense, when things do get rough for her, she always looks to him. And if he's fine, then she's like, okay, I can regulate this. I can I can be fine too, of course, if he's crazy, she's like, I'm coming along.

Lori Cohen  11:51  
Let's talk about Casey and Finnegan, because this is just a funny thing. And Chelsea didn't know what we were talking about, and I was talking naturally. And this is completely off topic a little bit. John, I can't remember if you knew this or not, but does anyone out there know Mr. Dress up Casey and Finnegan? Because that's the naming. And so Chelsea didn't know what I was talking about. And I was like, Well, no, of course, they named Fiat Casey because their other dogs, Finnegan, and we

Chelsey Marino  12:20  
right over

Lori Cohen  12:21  
their heads. And then I was like, Is this a Canadian thing? I have to ask the public. It is Canadian. It's Canadian. Well, it was like an institution anyway. So of course there, there is Casey and Finnegan. And what about Jay? Christy? Your husband, Jay? Because we know that there's a little bit of a soft spot there for this little girl, big time.

Christy Cook  12:44  
Oh yes, yes, we offer

Lori Cohen  12:46  
you. John, sorry. Christine, maybe I don't know.

Christy Cook  12:53  
Yeah, we always say Jay is her boyfriend, that she goes to him and just snuggles up and and our experience with other beagles too has been that they're actually more reluctant to go towards men, and so he, he really loves that. She loves him, probably just as much as she loves the rest of us, because he, he doesn't often get dedicated love like that from dogs, from dogs. You

Lori Cohen  13:24  
better clarify there

John Ramer  13:26  
you were mentioning how she's so outgoing and, like, jumped right on you and greets everybody at the house. Lori and Chelsea. I don't know if you guys remember when, when she was here. Absolutely she she wasn't entirely that way, she would like stretch her back legs out and kind of lean in and as soon as I made contact with her, then it was game on. She just jumped right into my lap. But she wasn't as as outgoing. And I would tend to say, Chelsea, you could definitely talk more to this than me, but that's that's a testimony to anybody looking to get one of these dogs on. What factor environment truly plays, isn't it?

Chelsey Marino  14:10  
Oh gosh, it plays a huge factor. And you know, I give the dogs evaluations when I'm at the ranch, just so I have a general idea of the behaviors and, you know, these different things that I see, I pass that along to Lori for the dogs that go up to Canada. But I always have the conversation of, like, this could all change. You know, like, there have been dogs who are not good with dogs when they're at the ranch, but they get into a different home, and they're totally fine with dogs, and with Fiat specifically, what's interesting is one of the conversations I remember having with Lori is this dog. It seems really stable, and she seems really sweet, and she seems calm, but that could be a facade. We don't know. So whatever foster you put her with has to know that when she decompresses, this could all change, and you could see these bad behaviors, because she could just be hiding some of these things, where some dogs are outright showing you, you know, the good, the bad, the ugly, right away. But Fiat wasn't. And so I was like, I don't know if this is a fluke or not, so let's just make sure they're, you know, people who are going to be able to work with her through this, and they're going to be patient with her. And it seems like it was not a facade. It seems like that's just who she is. It's

Lori Cohen  15:36  
true. It's true though, too. And you know what? That's exactly, honestly, that was part of the reason why we matched her, and really thought that Christy and Jay and Zoe would be perfect and Finnegan, because they had already fostered before we've had we'd had so many conversations about fostering, so we had worked with one dog together already, And they were the perfect family, and it's always bittersweet, because I love my foster fails, but then I lose a foster. So we were so thrilled, but she really didn't, because we've seen that before, Chelsea, where then the rambunctious one that's really kind of outgoing becomes the very shut down one. Sometimes it goes the opposite way. And we've often said that we see sometimes three different dogs. We you know, John sees them when they're first out of the facility. And then there's a transition in a sanctuary setting, and then there's a foster and then even if you go further, there's more, there's obviously, there's further transition, because they're decompressing, etc. But did you see any of the even though she was a little bit different, Christy and seemingly well adjusted? Did you see? What were some of the stages you saw? Were there some milestone moments that you went, Okay, this is, this is a movement,

Christy Cook  17:00  
I think, at Christmas time, like she, she really right around Christmas when all the decorations came out and everything, and she was just like, Okay, what's wrong with these people? And Christmas morning, we knew, we knew it was going to be, you know, tough for her, and when toys and treats came out for her, and she was just like, and she just really like for me, and there were things that were she didn't have to share with fitting in. They were hers and hers first. And she just kind of like, Oh, I think I'm gonna like it here, where she just really settled in and was like, I got this.

Chelsey Marino  17:50  
Chrissy, tell me what that's like for you to be there on Christmas morning seeing your new dog light up at Christmas. How does that feel knowing this is this dog's first Christmas, and look at how happy she is. It was

Christy Cook  18:07  
so heartwarming. Oh, it was, you just all the feels right? She was, you're like, oh my goodness, we did this. You know, she's she gets it, she understands and like, she just kind of sat back on the couch and was resting after all the craziness. And you're like, Yeah, sweetheart, you're home.

Lori Cohen  18:30  
Oh,

John Ramer  18:31  
when, when you think about where she came from and what she may have gone through, do you think that her past, at this point might affect you a little bit more than her

Christy Cook  18:49  
Absolutely, absolutely, I can't even think about what she's gone through. I it cripples me, honestly, because I look at her, and how could you hurt her? How could anybody hurt her? She's so sweet and trusting, and

Christy Cook  19:13  
I can't think about buying a product that would bother her, that was tested because of her. It. It just changes everything that you want to do with your life, because I don't want anyone to hurt another dog like they hurt her.

John Ramer  19:33  
Do you find yourself wanting to get more involved in the movement to raise awareness about research animals or or, I know some people kind of want to grab their their research dog and just hunker down and try and tune out the outside world. And some people are moved to action.

John Ramer  19:57  
Which Which side of that do you think you fall on?

Christy Cook  20:00  
Yeah, definitely action. I'm a teacher, so my kids have read more articles about research beagles. There is not a child who passes through my classroom that doesn't know her picture, doesn't hear, doesn't read, doesn't research about it. And the number of them that are shocked, they come up to me, who routinely are like, How's Casey doing? Do you have a new picture of Casey? Because I just keep spreading the word. Every person who stops me on the street because I'm wearing my took that says Beagle Alliance, we explain. Every person who pets her on a walk, gets, gets the story, gets told, gets and my whole family, they're just we talk about it constantly to people so that they hear, so that they know. And every one of my kids, when they heard about Ridgeland, came to me and were like, Did you see the news? Did you see this? Did you see this? So I keep talking. I keep talking always. Thank you, Christy, that's amazing. My wife and I went to the Grand Canyon on a vacation. We took our two former research beagles with us, and there we were standing at the North Rim, and we had our back to the Grand Canyon the entire time because we were turned around answering everybody's questions about our research beagles. They do the best promotion of all. Yeah, they really, they do. They're the best ambassadors. And they, they really do, spark conversation and spark changes in people's minds. And now I'm thinking, Christy, I should come do a presentation at your school. We might have to discuss that after. I'm thinking, we should make Casey a therapy dog. That's what I'm thinking. Oh, yeah, would you like a go and she could be a professional ambassador? Yeah, she's been great so far. She's just looking around. 

Chelsey Marino  21:57  
Chrissy, what's her story when you're talking about her. When you're talking to people about Casey, and maybe even specifically with the kids, what's a story that you like to tell them about her? Is there something that sticks in your mind? Of when I talk about Casey, this is the one story that I go to

Christy Cook  22:14  
well, they usually ask me, What is she doing right now? And I always say, You know what? She's in bed, and because she gets into bed at night with us, and she curls up, and it is the most peaceful, restful thing to just see her sleeping. But when I get up in the morning to go to work, she doesn't get up. And my husband, who has been working from home for a bit, I'll ask him every day, what time did she get up? And it's sometimes not till three o'clock in the afternoon does this little princess emerge from the covers. We make the bed. Just put the covers all around her,

Christy Cook  22:53  
and people will be like, don't you get her up. And I said, I'm not going to begrudge her the peaceful sleep that she wants. She can stay in bed as long as she wants. She

Chelsey Marino  23:03  
deserves it.

Christy Cook  23:03  
Finnegan gets up and starts his day. She's earned the right to stay all day in bed if she wants. And the kids love that. They say That's their favorite thing about Casey is that she sleeps late and has zero qualms about doing so

John Ramer  23:20  
that's amazing.

Lori Cohen  23:20  
Does she play with toys? Christy,

Christy Cook  23:23  
yes, quite a bit. We've had a huge resurgence. Just spring is kind of sprung in Manitoba, and she's the last couple of weeks or so, she's just been crazy at Toys. They're all over the floor, everywhere, and she and Finnegan have instituted like a low WrestleMania every night at about 10 o'clock

John Ramer  23:46  
that could have been your sister.

Matt Cundill  23:56  
And now dogs beyond the lab continues.

Chelsey Marino  24:00  
What's so interesting. Christy, I remember when we first talked, I don't know if it was Laurie. When do we do the foster calls?

Lori Cohen  24:08  
Well, we

Chelsey Marino  24:09  
after, and

Christy Cook  24:10  
they would have

Lori Cohen  24:11  
been a couple weeks, and then, so I think, yeah, it would have been two to four weeks that we would have done our group call. And then you and I spoke with Christy and Jay and Zoe together.

Chelsey Marino  24:20  
Yeah, so I remember, I think it was maybe our first conversation of our one on one, or I guess it was like me and Lori and you when we were talking about her. I have in my notes that she didn't play with toys at that time, and one of the things I encourage you guys to do was to try and spark some play in her a little. I think it's so powerful when these dogs can play. So I am so happy to hear that she is now doing that and thrashing them around and playing around because that I always say that a dog can always eat food when they're scared, but they can't play when they're scared. So whenever I see a dog who's playing.

Chelsey Marino  25:00  
And

Chelsey Marino  25:00  
especially with toys, because that's very instinctual for, you know, prey drive type of thing. I always encourage people to try to get your dog to play. So I'm so happy to hear that she is doing that

Christy Cook  25:10  
she quite likes toys. I mean, she takes her cue from her brother as to how to play with them, so she does rip and tear at them a bit. But we don't care, we'll buy her as many toys as she needs or wants or doesn't need, because she's so excited, like when you bring home a new toy, it's actually a problem more for me, because I will buy her a new toy every time I go out, because the look on her face when you bring her a new toy and she just lights up, she's like, Oh, that's for me. Oh,

Chelsey Marino  25:43  
gosh,

Lori Cohen  25:44  
that's a video to capture. Christy.

John Ramer  25:47  
Oh, yeah, for sure.

Lori Cohen  25:49  
Casey with her new toy,

Chelsey Marino  25:50  
I have a question for you. Christy, what is a tuke? So you have your tuk on. Is that another Canadian I have never heard of. I have no idea what is it? Is it a hat? Probably

Christy Cook  26:03  
call them beanies.

Chelsey Marino  26:04  
A beanie. Okay, that's what I thought. You're like, I have my tuk on, and I'm like, what heck is that? Yes, I also have, I also have a beagle Alliance took, but I call it a beanie. Yes, okay, tuk

Lori Cohen  26:18  
is the French word.

John Ramer  26:20  
I'm going to totally date myself and say that I learned what a took was from the old Bob and Doug McKenzie shows.

Lori Cohen  26:27  
Oh yes, I remember you saying that, John, that is so very Canadian. Yeah, it's very American of you to say that about Canada.

John Ramer  26:38  
That was my first exposure to the great white north,

Lori Cohen  26:41  
exactly. That's so good. So good.

John Ramer  26:46  
So Christy, going back to you and any possible questions. Sorry, we hijacked the dialog

Lori Cohen  26:51  
totally. Yeah,

Christy Cook  26:53  
because Ridgeland is so much in the news these days. And do we is there going to be, do you think there's going to be changes in legislation? Do you think that things are like, we always get really hopeful that things are going to change. Where do you see things going in the United States, and are you a little bit worried about the influx of dogs? Is the public prepared to support dogs that, I mean, they can be really challenging. They have a lot of issues, and I would just personally hate to see like, this huge influx of dogs, and then two years down the road, do we see that these dogs are being surrendered? Or what kind of supports are you prepared to offer for this? Like, where, where is your stance on this? There were a lot of questions in there. I'm very sorry.

John Ramer  27:43  
You know there, there may have been a lot of questions, but the common theme is very, very valid, and I'll, I'll touch on it as as much as I can, given the work that I do in this industry. And before I go too in depth on it. I love the fact that when I first started in this industry, that it was very, very quiet and alone, and I've met some incredible people in the community, like Laurie and Chelsea that respect the methods that kindness ranch has and how we quietly advocate, but more as a consulting role. So as a consultant, I can say a lot of people tell me that I don't do enough, or I don't act fast enough. There's they don't perceive the sense of urgency that they feel when they think about the animals that are currently in research, and when we worked with all of the dogs that came out of the in Vigo breeding facility, and especially right now, with the dogs that are currently being released as of the recording of this episode from The Ridgeland facility in Wisconsin, there's a lot of very, very well intended people that are going to be taking in these dogs that don't know what they're in for, which when you when you get the fear of missing out, when you hear all of the good publicity on these dogs Coming out of breeding facilities or out of research facilities, and you want one so bad, and you just feel like love is going to make all of the difference. And then you get the dog, and you realize that you have a six year old dog that's under socialized, has never had to hold it before they go outside to go potty, and they you have this six year old puppy that is really, really difficult to break of all of those habits they don't have the generational knowledge handed down from stable dogs that teach them to be scared of cars that the TV is okay, the smell of a coffee maker in the morning is a good thing. So there's all of these little things that people don't know, and that's where people like Laurie and Chelsea are so invaluable to if you want to call it, this movement of getting all of these animals out because of their network, their experience and everything like that. The laws are changing, but laws change slow for a reason, because the things that change slowly are much more permanent to change. They bought all of the dogs that are being released out of Ridgeland farms, and if Ridgeland farms didn't have an agreement that they were going to surrender their breeding license, they would have just kept breeding. You know, they may have sold 1500 dogs, but they could have had the option to just continue to breed. That didn't change the underlying concern of the public. So there's, there's room for both fronts on this movement. I just I prefer the non adversarial one, because I'm old and I don't stand up as quick as I used to.

Lori Cohen  31:08  
That's such a good answer, John, and I'd love may i Christy speak to that as well. From the Canadian standpoint, of course, needless to say, we work with kindness ranch and and the reason we do is not just because they're fabulous, but obviously we share the same belief system. Needless to say, you know you you meet the people that you are like, minded with, and you work with, and we always say that there's a role. There's so many different roles, and it's important in the animal welfare world to respect everyone's roles and realize that there are different roles, and there needs to be different roles. Right now, in Canada, we have far less legislation than even the United States does, although premier Doug Ford is attempting to make amendments to the bills so that we can stop testing on pets and research, and we are working with Canadian welfare organizations, and we have acted in the same way that John has as a consultant with the government to talk about adoption and what that looks like when, and if we're hoping it's a when that This bill passes and amendments are made naturally, and then after that. So that's positive in Canada, and then after that. Of course, we want to hit up every province, because there needs to be legislation across the entire country. But I agree, and you can rest assured that the three of us have had this conversation many times, and I think it's fair to say that we're all prepared to help whoever comes to us needing help and advice and experience, because just as John said, there is so many people, and they are so well intentioned, and they want to love a dog and love, I'm going to say it love is not enough. It's it's a start, and we love them, and that's the that's what starts it, of course. But you know, there's some skills that are needed, and some patients that need it, and some things that people are going to run into, and we would all, I think it's safe to say that we would all be more than thrilled to help those people through it, because, in fact, that's helping the dogs.

Chelsey Marino  33:31  
I completely agree with all of those things. And Christy, you touched on something that is a huge fear of mine, and has been a huge fear of mine since I first started with working with research beagles, which is, if we do all this work, and there are people working really, really, really hard to get these dogs out of these facilities, if we do all this work and we as the general public are not prepared For these dogs, then it's all, you know, is it all wasted because we don't want them to be surrendered. We don't want them to be euthanized because they bit someone, right? And like, I think it is our duty as human beings who benefit from animal testing. It's our duty to then prepare ourselves for the dogs when they get out, and that's something that I've thought of since the beginning, and why I've devoted the past two and a half years of my life to creating as many resources and helping as many people with these dogs as possible, because they are different. And you know, even with Casey that she is a, you know, well balanced dog, but she still had startle reflexes. She still was scared of the TV turning on. She was afraid of the water fountain at your house, you know, she was afraid of the refrigerator door. Noises like she was afraid of all those things. And, you know, these dogs, that's just a small scale of things that they deal with and with John and Lori and myself, we want to help as much as we can, and we will help anyone as much as we can, because that is what we should be doing for these dogs,

Lori Cohen  35:21  
you know, I just want to say this thing, and this is what I'm really proud. I am so grateful and proud to work with kindness and with Chelsea, with John, their teams, and also grateful for the Fosters and adopters who really utilize our resources and take it in and want to do the very best. I think John, what John said, is really important about the long term changes and the approach that he's taken and quite successfully and still going. There's so much more to do if the system allows for this, the system is where the change needs to happen. And what I love about all of us is that this is a holistic approach, because there are a lot of band aids to so many things that go on in animal welfare, and the system is going to the root. And when you hit the root of the issue, you make long term change. And that's the role, I think, John, without speaking for you, because you already said it so beautifully, I think that's simply the role that our organizations have decided to take, and other organizations have take other roles. And we, of course, wish them all the best and hope and they're making their change in their way, I guess is what I'm saying, but the system allows it, and the system is where we would like to change it.

John Ramer  36:52  
I hope that answers your question. Christy, you

Chelsey Marino  36:58  
really touched something. We're like, let's talk about it. Let's talk

Lori Cohen  37:03  
about it. Let's jump on those soap boxes and just go

John Ramer  37:07  
Christy, before we wrap it up. Do you want to give your class A shout out?

Christy Cook  37:12  
Well, to all my classes and all my kids at college, where at collegiate, absolutely keep asking questions and keep keep asking about Casey, because she'll

Lori Cohen  37:26  
she'll answer. What

Chelsey Marino  37:27  
do you think Casey wants people to know if she if she could tell the world something about herself or her journey? What would she want everyone to know about her?

Christy Cook  37:35  
I think she would tell people that families and treats are absolutely the best

Chelsey Marino  37:42  
they really are. I agree,

Christy Cook  37:45  
and you can get treats for so much. Thank

Lori Cohen  37:51  
you so much. Christy, I know I've asked so many things of you guys, and you truly are ambassadors. And so is Casey, and I so appreciate it. Thank you, and thank you for sharing all of your experiences with everyone on the street and in the school and wherever you are at the grocery store.

John Ramer  38:12  
Absolutely and Casey is proof to whoever's listening that you don't have to have a former research dog to tune in and take part in our life, lessons, our discussions, and any training tips and techniques that you may be inquisitive about. You can follow us on all of our socials. Christy, do you have Instagram for Casey, or anything that you want to give a shout out for?

Christy Cook  38:35  
You know what I don't have for Casey, but I have for my former dog, Dory is still the Instagram on there. So Dory Cook is where you can find more pictures of Casey.

John Ramer  38:50  
Perfect,

Lori Cohen  38:51  
very cool, very cool.

John Ramer  38:53  
Lori Chelsea, you want to throw out your socials real quick.

Chelsey Marino  38:56  
Yes, you can follow along the work that my team does with former research beagles at on Instagram, at keeper dot and dot kin

Lori Cohen  39:06  
and the Beagle alliance.org, and on social media, the Beagle Alliance, or Beagle Alliance on all social media. And I think I'd like to echo what John said is that you certainly don't have to have a former research Beagle or intending to foster or adopt. I think it really is just a testament to to how our dogs change us, and how much, just how much love we place for our dogs and how important they are in the lives of all of us. So again, thank you, Christy, so much. Hug that doggie for me. And you know, don't I don't want to leave Finnegan out, so you give that guy kiss too, and we'll talk soon. And

John Ramer  39:44  
if you're interested in anything kindness ranch has, go and just search for kindness ranch on all of the major socials and

Chelsey Marino  39:51  
YouTube.

Matt Cundill  39:52  
Thanks for listening to dogs beyond the lab for more, including comments feedback and ways to get in touch with our hosts. Go. To beyond the lab dot dog

Tara Sands (Voiceover)  40:02  
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